this might sound like an abstract idea, but i would love to hear your thoughts.
there seem to be so many questions that can not be answered in their literature and research materials.
there are things they just "know," even though they are often unable to find where it was published in printed material.. how many of their beliefs are being changed, shifted and spread throughout the congregation, through use of comments alone?
tornapart: If those around them believe it and repeat it enough, they might come around.
The idea of the "meme," is that it morphs like a gene, and without conscious effort, a thought becomes "your" thought.
Have there ever been any other "loaded" or over-the-top idea, that they have adopted as their own?
thought-stopping platitudes, like "we are in the last days!
"jehovah's witnesses are the only ones with the truth...".
what statements or claims did you use, or hear, that made you feel comforted by the fact that you were part of jehovah's organization?.
Teach them early and remind them often, not to trust themselves, or to "lean on your own understanding."
As my father repeated to me three times in a recent conversation, "They are smarter than me!"
When we were Bible students, they would encourage us to "do your own research! I did!" The problem with that idea, is that you are only really allowed to look at WTS literature. If you find anything that is not agreement, it is discarded as a lie from Satan's system.
"Keep a waiting attitude."
"We are the only ones following Christ's commands."
thought-stopping platitudes, like "we are in the last days!
"jehovah's witnesses are the only ones with the truth...".
what statements or claims did you use, or hear, that made you feel comforted by the fact that you were part of jehovah's organization?.
Thought-stopping platitudes, like "We are in the last days!"
"Jehovah's Witnesses are the only ones with the Truth..."
What statements or claims did you use, or hear, that made you feel comforted by the fact that you were part of Jehovah's organization?
yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.
i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.
it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.
Her decision seemed to be prompted by the fact that I sent gifts to my niece and nephew, but she wrote:
"While I appreciate the thought, please do not send us gifts.
Our kids are not missing out on anything other than things we try to protect them from.
At this time, based on prior encounters and their affect on me emotionally, I think it would be best if we didn't communicate.
I hope you can understand my decision and the fact that it is not meant to offend anyone."
She has not responded, to tell me what specifically I have done to effect her emotions. I think I might make her doubt.
We were never baptized, but when we stopped studying, my brother in law confronted me (alone, without my husband). He accused me of "turning my back on Jehovah." After that day, my sister stopped attending any event at my house. She has never been upfront about her decisions or why she is making them. Her husband has always been in control of the family, and it has grown progressively worse since the JW's have "saved their marriage."
yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.
i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.
it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.
Outlaw: Exactly!
problemaddict: What a sad story. I'm so glad I escaped with most of my mind intact. To be totally honest, I don't think they ever would have had enough answers to satisfy my husband, and he would have done whatever was necessary to protect his family. (Even though there was that one time, when the BS teacher cornered him alone, and threatened him, "Are you going to progress here, or are you going to sentence your family to death at Armageddon?"... death threats, really? Didn't have much power over a college educated Gulf War veteran... PULL, don't push, silly JW!).
Robert: What are the 5 most often used WTBS platitudes, and how do I overcome them? I haven't thought of it in these terms before. I'm pretty sure she used at least 2 or 3 on me yesterday, and I didn't challenge her. I don't know her, and really didn't go to the gas station, prepared for battle. ;)
But now I do feel like I definitely should be better prepared, as she has spent many years practicing her techniques.
obedience is key in the paragraph below and the urgency is also emphasised with an exclaimation mark.. .
10 the earthly part of gods organization is moving ahead in many ways.
it helps us understand bible truth more and more clearly.
DD: You have every right to be pissed. I would be too. Remember you have friends here. I love your jokes and stories, but you can't keep your feelings bottled up forever.
I hope the new job turns out to be a good change in the long run. I would use any excuse possible to miss meetings. Be strong and keep ranting here.
Less drinking and maybe some exercise, might help with your mood. I got into that habit myself, and I don't have JW's trying to control my life.
Get a punching bag, hang it in your basement, and tape someone's face to it.
yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.
i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.
it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.
Thanks, CoCo!
I loved my years in Girl Scouts... until 8th grade, when it was no longer cool.
I went to GS camp for 9 summers, and it was the highlight of my year. I had plans to become a schoolteacher, just so I could go to camp every summer as a counselor. (That didn't really work out, but a different story on selling out my dream... haha)
One year, I sold the most boxes in my GS council and got to go to camp for free. It was awesome.
yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.
i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.
it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.
redvip: She didn't actually say that apostates were lying... just that they felt like they had to run around "telling everybody..." (forget the exact words she used, but she was starting to get upset when I asked her what she meant by apostate information).
redvip: What goes through your mind as a JW, when confronted with facts? What does the person who is not representing the society, represent in your mind?
Then I asked her if you were allowed to leave, and she told me a couple of experiences she'd had with disfellowshipped ones.
Punkofnice: I think you are right, about her mind battling with itself, although I didn't see it at the time. I don't really know the lady, but now that I am thinking back about it, I can recognize the times when her conscience was speaking over her JW persona. I really felt like I was talking to a devout JW the whole time. She seemed completely convinced she had the absolute truth, and bragged about how much research she had done, that convinced her the JWs had the real truth. At the same time, she was really good at getting me to open up.
I had run into her a few weeks ago on another errand, and we shared some small talk. When I saw her coming, I wondered if she was going to avoid me or just be polite. I didn't expect her to approach me and offer me magazines and a bible study.
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She made the comment a few times, "I don't want to waste your time. It wouldn't be fair to you either... " and I didn't know if she was realizing she was wasting her time (which I know she gets credit for as a pioneer). I did admit to her, "I probably won't become a Jehovah's Witness." She kept saying how a person had to come to their own decision, etc... but then kept offering her help.
yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.
i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.
it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.
Thanks, Robert: I was looking at both those options! How much time do I want to spend on this lost cause? It will actually give me some things to talk to my mom about. She still asks me every time, if anyone has been by. She knows that JW's are drawn to my doorstep.
We live in the territory of one rural congregation, but when we moved here, we went to the meetings at the KH that shares our zip code. The other JW's always came with invitations for the memorial and sometimes with other campaigns. It sort of became a friendly joke. Then we had our BS get transferred to a less experienced JW, who is part of a 3rd congregation. So we have JW connections all over two counties, even though we were never even publishers.
I finally see the Girl Scouts are out selling their cookies here, so I will pick up some of those GS logo cookies and make sure my table is cleared off and ready for company. I should have given her my number or asked her for a specific time. I'd rather have an appointment, than a surprise visitor.
If I'm not immediately leaving, I think I will invite her in at least once and see how it goes. She is a little bit long-winded. I didn't really know her before, as she was more of an acquaintance. She spoke of at least 3 different people who are studying with her, and it really sounds like she is getting challenged by all of them. She made interesting comments, including her repeated acknowledgment that they do indeed "make adjustments. I don't really think of them as changes" in their understanding.
yesterday, i had a chance meeting with an acquaintance from the kh we used to attend.. after being away from the meetings for so long, and really starting to feel like i've almost entirely shed their false teachings, i have somehow lost sight of the fact that there are actually still people who really believe it.
i read the magazines now, and find it virtually impossible to comprehend how anyone can actually swallow those ideas.
it seems so warped and twisted to me now.. i guess the best way i can describe this encounter, was being "cornered" in public.
If she actually comes to my door, I am going to ask her more about this "apostate information." What does that include?
I'm pretty sure she will go back to our original BS teacher, and he will tell her what happened. She probably won't come back, when she realizes that we DID listen to apostates. (video of ex-JWs on John Ankerberg Show).
They told us to do our research!
We presented our BS teacher (77-year old born-in JW elder) with some questions about 1975 and Beth Sarim, and he refused to answer the questions we had. He flat-out DENIED that 1975 was ever any big deal. "No one every predicted anytihng like that!" He denied any knowledge of Beth Sarim. We were so stunned by his strange reaction to our concerns. "They're fornicators! Apostates! Idolators!" (seriously... that is what he said).
We asked for a copy of the article the man was holding up on the TV. He brought us a transcribed, typewritten copy of the text of that article. We didn't bother reading it, since it was clearly a lie.
I still sort of think that if they'd handled themselves better, I could have ended up becoming a JW. Instead of answering my heartfelt concerns, the elder who was supposedly teaching us, turned his back on us and shut us out. I was already pretty heartbroken, to hear the things I was hearing about the "truth." I had spent an entire night crying over it, before we confronted him with the information we had found. When he refused to help with our questions, I was left very confused and hurt.
I'm curious to know what goes through a well-trained JW's mind, when they hear someone like me tell them (or ask them) some truth about the truth.
As a bible student, I did start to feel more "equipped" to dispell the "lies" being told by false Christendom. They should have warned us that the truth was out there, and that apostates were eager to tell us all about it.
Sadly, I was a good student. I did understand the warnings about "stumbling" each other. I really feel like I missed a golden opportunity to share the facts with my family members, before my parents got baptized. It could have already been too late, but I do regret keeping these things to myself. I guess I was just in shock.
Having never been a JW, I am slightly surprised to notice how ashamed I started to feel, when she used the word "apostate." That never came up in our studies, until we brought that video to our teacher. The JWs really do get into your head. It took me over 2 years to do any more research or visit any ex-JW sites.
